In her coverage of the Olympics, Gen Z’s podcast queen discusses oral sex, coming for Joe Rogan, quitting Spotify, the Kamala Harris interview, and the unexpected advantages of being always online.
Media stories centered on the typical historical channels, such as Howard Stern, Stephen Colbert, and 60 Minutes, when Kamala Harris’ campaign recently revealed the candidate will be appearing in numerous new interviews. However, it was Harris’ confrontation with Alex Cooper that led to a flurry of viral social media videos. In just a few years, Cooper’s Call Her Daddy podcast has transformed from a sexy show about relationships and sex to a popular platform for celebrity confessions.
Although it wasn’t the first time, Alex Cooper was aware that she was taking a significant risk.
Cooper has been the most popular (and highest-paid) female podcaster in the world since she launched her megahit podcast, Call Her Daddy, six years ago. With a series of calculated moves, she jumped ship from Barstool Sports to Spotify in 2019 (for $60 million) and then again to SiriusXM this year (for $125 million). She has transformed over the years from portraying a vivacious persona renowned for her obscene jokes about relationships and sex to being a media force that secures high-profile celebrity interviews and spearheads open dialogues focused on women’s issues.
The campaign of Kamala Harris then called.
Cooper was first hesitant to speak with the vice president because she had spent so much time trying to appear impartial to her devoted young female audience, known as the “Daddy Gang.” Cooper states, “I’ve been very ambivalent about politics. I know that people come to my show to escape the everyday grind, and I don’t want to use my platform as a campaign tool.” However, after several attempts to make it happen, her team thought that the time was finally right. I was anticipating a discussion about the rights of women.
Similar to her question list, which stayed to subjects she regularly discusses on her show (“I’m probably not the one to be having the fracking conversation,” she admits), Cooper wore one of her signature purple hoodies and black stiletto heels for their sit-down in Washington. Nevertheless, Cooper occasionally threw a curveball, asking Harris, “Why should we trust you?” Although Cooper offered to give Donald Trump equal time, he declined, and the MAGA crowd reacted negatively to the broadcast. Although it wasn’t a feet-to-the-fire grilling, their conversation did not shy away from content, touching on issues like sexual violence and abortion. All of a sudden, Call Her Daddy was being mentioned alongside Harris’ previous appearances on well-known legacy media shows like 60 Minutes and The View, and it quickly rose to the number two spot on the podcast charts, trailing only her fiercest competitor, Joe Rogan. Coincidentally, Rogan is currently being interviewed by Harris.
Cooper, the daughter of a TV sports producer and a psychologist from Pennsylvania, talked about her podcast competitors, her best and worst interviews, her split from Sofia Franklyn, her former Call Her Daddy co-host, in 2020, her Unwell content creator network, her terrible sleeping patterns, and the little-known advantages of being constantly online during our 90-minute Zoom chat. She declares, “I want to be the world’s biggest creator.”
I have a strong sense of competition. I want to do more than one thing. I strive to grow Call Her Daddy every year. It made a lot of sense to speak with Sirius because there would be more than just the main show; I want to announce the other formats in a few months. They made the intriguing pitch, “We want people to think of Alex Cooper when they think of SiriusXM.” Sirius was the best at allowing me to experiment and try new ideas without sacrificing the integrity of my product.
I want someone to say, “Duh, it was the money,” at least once after signing one of these.
Do not misunderstand; it is a transformative experience. You’re investing a lot of time and energy into a product that you hope will generate revenue. However, I began creating stuff from the age of five. I didn’t want a payday. I only wanted the videos I was showing my pals to have an emotional impact on them. I find it amazing that the money has arrived, but I went with Sirius since there are many opportunities to expand Call Her Daddy and make it a bigger business. It’s amazing to see what they’ve accomplished with Howard Stern.
Now that you’re living together, will you be appearing on Howard’s show?
I need to do something with Howard. When I saw Private Parts in college, I thought it was one of the funniest films I had ever seen. Yes, we must take action.
Stories have referred to you as the “female Howard Stern,” and I’ve been wondering if you like or don’t like that moniker.
You won’t ever say, “Don’t call me that,” when someone compares you to a legendary figure. Being in the same phrase as you is an honor for me. However, I also believe that there is a significant difference between what he has done and what I have done. I know I was filling a gap in the market when there wasn’t another lady in that lane for women like he was for guys, if you want to compare the early days when I was talking more about sex and relationships.
How do you feel about the speculations that you will be taking Stern’s place as the frank celebrity interviewer on Sirius after his current contract expires and that Stern would eventually retire?
There is never a moment when I believe someone will replace Howard.
Did you think Spotify ought to have done more to win your loyalty? They are obviously not impoverished because they reportedly spent $250 million to retain Joe Rogan.
My time at Spotify was the best. Really. Women in the industry said, “Damn, thank you, because now we all can see that we can do that,” once I signed. It was a historic occasion. It felt like, “Hey, I’m here, and I want to squeeze myself in the middle,” when you saw all the men getting these massive deals. Loyalty is important, but business is also involved, and I’m a badass at business. I will defend my Daddy Gang and my show.
Are you going to do any more episodes? I ask because you have a mathematical disadvantage in trying to overtake Rogan in the rankings because he does more than you do. And you declared, “I want to be the biggest podcast in the world,” when you visited Spotify in 2021. Is that still the objective?
It’s an objective. Even though I only do one episode per week, my program will be up there with all of the top shows in the lists, which are doing a ton of episodes. I wanted to keep it feeling exclusive, like premium content. If I produced more episodes, Spotify would pay me more. Since I didn’t want to compromise the main product, I consistently said no. When artists take on too much, they eventually burn out and say, “Oh, I can’t do this anymore.” I’ve mastered that product to the point that I can handle more without going crazy. Additionally, as everyone has been pleading, the broadcast will be accessible on YouTube. I will be everywhere, and there will be more stuff.
So far, who has been your favorite visitor?
Asking someone what their favorite movie is is my least favorite question. Miley Cyrus, who gave Cooper a candid interview in 2020 that has since been a staple of her podcast, was the first person to truly take a chance on me as a star. She was amazing, and I hadn’t been dressed like a celebrity. I will always remember wearing Jane Fonda. I was thrilled that this iconic woman was taking the time to talk to me. Aguilera Christina was amazing. Palmer, Keke. RuPaul! — I wasn’t feeling great. I’ve been admiring Chelsea Handler for a long time, and now we’re pals.
Who is your least favorite guest to date? That will be the following question.
The one I can’t identify is my least favorite; it never broadcast. The actor was a man who was simply not providing anything. He was obviously on a press run. “Bro, you don’t want to be here,” I said, not wanting to blow his butt up. None of these questions are being addressed by you. You were placed in this chair by someone you didn’t even know. “Let’s not air this because I don’t want my listeners to come at you for not giving anything,” is what I believe was a mutual respect issue.
You’ve admitted to turning away prospective guests who didn’t want to open up since they were also on publicity trips. Some of those are who?
I don’t want to upset anyone. I respect the fact that everyone is advocating something. Call Her Daddy is what I’m advertising. However, I always respond, “We need to discuss your personal life, even though I know you are promoting this.” “If [listeners] care about you, they’ll care more about your product,” I tell them. My audience expects me to ask specific questions because they hold me to a certain standard. How can I resist asking Brad, Ben, or Gwyneth Paltrow who is better in bed? This podcast about relationships and sex is entertaining. We must travel there.
What was the question you were most anxious to ask?
I don’t want to get too serious, but I believe it’s critical for me to read the room and determine when the individual is ready to go there whenever I’m dealing with sexual trauma. I’ve had note cards with bullet points of where I want to go for a lot of interviews, but I usually throw them out because I’m reading the candidate and they still seem a bit anxious, so I’m going to go into another area.
Naturally, though, there was the Hailey Bieber incident and all the crazy drama surrounding Hailey and Selena Gomez on the internet. Two amazing women were competing against one another. I needed to inquire about it. But how can you respect the other person who isn’t present in the room we’re discussing and still do that? I wanted to exercise caution in that regard. Sometimes I don’t care about making a headline; I just want to be a nice person.
Do you have any interviews you would like to retake?
Miley Cyrus, I need to do another interview because I was such a baby. Since I had no idea what I was doing, I believe it will be lovely when we both reunite because we were in such different phases of our lives. I was just pleased that I could ask her a few things and look her in the eyes.
You’ve made a lot of effort. Which of your statements do you wish you could retract?
When I first started podcasting, I said a lot of things that I thought at the time were hilarious or that I was doing to attract views or clicks. I never release anything knowing that I’m going to do harm to someone. However, you will say some stupid things, just like every other creator. I’m not sure whether I would change a thing. I would simply take a new approach. But we’re all included in that. I’ve had moments where I say things like, “Remember when I said that this is the proper way to respond to a man? Actually, I no longer agree and suggest this in its place. But I would have rolled my eyes at Alex, 30, giving me that advise when I was 23. Everything depends on your current stage of life.
You recently achieved a new degree of widespread recognition when Peacock collaborated with you to cover the Olympics this summer. You received criticism for your performance as well. How do you think you performed?
God, did I receive criticism for it? What took place?
I came upon a frenzied tirade on Reddit with the heading, “Alex Cooper at the Olympics is now an international problem,” among other things on social media.
I’m not a Reddit reader. That didn’t seem to transfer to my algorithm. However, I will agree that if Reddit is discussing it, then we’re doing something correctly. My experience was the finest. It was quite unlike anything I had ever done. They were attempting to re-establish the Olympics as a popular sport among Generation Z, and I believe they employed amazing tactics to do it. NBC gave me excellent feedback as well. It seemed like a full circle, combining my two lives together, even though I’ve never done live TV. I grew up watching my dad produce live sports.
Speaking of combining the two, I came across a TikTok in which you made reference to Cooper’s most notorious and well-known early episode, the “Gluck Gluck 9000” technique, in a joke about Olympian Simone Biles. This was extremely inappropriate. For NBC Sports, that must have been a first.
They controlled every word I spoke. They were approving me since there were teleprompters and scripts. I won’t simply say, “Let me discuss this crazy thing.” “We want you to be Alex Cooper,” Peacock said to me. We don’t want you to suddenly become an NBC host. They brought me in so I could do what I did and draw in my audience. I truly appreciated them for realizing that [my content] was undoubtedly more brand-safe [than usual].
Relying on someone else’s method for a significant occasion like that must have been a little strange for someone who often has complete control over their image and output.
Yes, it was. Last fall, when I performed my first live tour, I recall thinking that I would lose control the moment I took the stage and that I would go crazy. My name is on the [venue], but I had more than 60 people working on a tour. So I’m responsible if something goes wrong. Even if I’ve grown more comfortable with delegation, I will still be involved in everything as much as possible.
Other podcasts that featured unmarried women discussing their romantic life were released around the same time as Call Her Daddy, but they were not as successful or long-running. Was there a concern that departing from the formula would lead to fan rejection? Call Her Daddy is not the same program it was back then.
Unlike many creators who claim, “I don’t listen to them or I’m going to get pulled in ten different directions,” I pay attention to my audience. They have remained at the forefront thanks to me. Another thing I observe is that creators will begin with fans who are 14 years old and continue to communicate with them even when they are 30 years old. At that point, artists burn out, and their followers begin to perceive it as dishonest, which is true. Even though it was frightening, I realized I had to change with my audience and go from discussing extremely obscene topics to having more personal discussions about mental health, vulnerabilities, and fears. Now that I have [a diverse group of people] listening to my show, I can have a TikTok star one week and Jane Fonda the next. I’m like, “Oh my God, that sounds exactly like the original Call Her Daddy,” whenever I see young girls start a podcast. Seeing concepts I’ve considered go beyond me is really exciting.
Taylor Swift, of whom you are obviously a tremendous admirer, is another musician who comes to mind when you talk about developing with your fans.
She has always been an inspiration to me. I discovered my most embarrassing music videos, in which I sang along to Taylor Swift, while searching through old hard drives. Because of her growth and the fact that she essentially stated, “I’m not comparing myself to anyone,” I greatly admire her. I’m competing with myself and making a path for myself. Comparing myself to Howard Stern or Joe Rogan is pointless. I’d rather not be them. I don’t think of any of these folks when I sit down at my work every day.
Taylor must be your top pick for a guest. Or is there someone else you think would be the best fit?
She will always rank among the most desirable guests. However, when I listen to my audience, there are weeks when my direct messages suddenly explode and everyone is pleading with me to have someone on. You ask yourself, “How is this possible?” when I show you someone from Love Island whose [podcast episode numbers] like Hailey Bieber. The reason for this is that social media has fundamentally altered the relevancy factor landscape, and a conversation may be pertinent for a day before it fades away. The winner of the game is whomever gets that individual on the chair. Another example is the interview I had with Ariana Madix [of Vanderpump Rules] regarding Tom Sandoval. So, certainly, I’m always interested in the celebrity guests. However, I believe I’m quite adept at jumping on the pertinent zeitgeist debate. I spend every minute of my day on the internet. I’m just taking notes, scrolling, and scribbling.
You seem content and busy, but I identify “chronically online” with people who are depressed, worried, and constantly comparing themselves to others. My mind is somewhat at odds with that.
It is in conflict. However, I believe there is a distinction between being always online and losing any sense of your value in this world. Instead of doing the negative things, I’m opting to use an algorithm that genuinely advances my creative abilities.
“What’s the craziest rumor that you’ve read about yourself?” is a question you posed to Megan Fox. It’s also a smart method to persuade a celebrity to talk about something you wouldn’t want to question them directly.
I’ve never had facial plastic surgery, but I adore Botox. One of the most absurd rumors is that I deceived someone to get to where I am now. That isn’t accurate. Alright, if that’s the story. But knowing the truth helps me sleep well at night.
Yes, when Call Her Daddy was at Barstool Sports and they were engaged in a lengthy standoff negotiation for more money, you did an episode that detailed your side of the separation with your former co-host Sofia Franklyn. However, you must have considered Sofia at least once when you signed this significant multiyear SiriusXM contract. What is that notion, I wonder?
I don’t think as much about the individual. The idea is: I’m thrilled that I stood up for this intellectual property [the Call Her Daddy brand and program archive] because I trusted myself. Because I will never forget the day Dave Portnoy, the founder of Barstool, presented us that intellectual property on a rooftop. I was so thrilled that I said, “I’ll stay another year.” Whatever it takes, I’ll do it. That IP is what I want. because I had invested a great deal of sweat equity in this, including writing, editing, and marketing. “I think we could start a show called ‘Girls in the Bathroom,'” or something similar, “and it will be just as good,” said Sofia. “That might be true,” I said. However, I don’t think I’m going to give up this IP. I’d rather not start over. I’m glad I realized the value of the catalog, trademarks, and intellectual property. That is what I think about. Every time I sign a new contract, I send Dave Portnoy a quick text to say “thank you.”
I’m sure he loves that.
He does!
In order to get him to give you Call Her Daddy so you could eventually buy it somewhere else, what did you say?
He found himself in a challenging situation. The show had taken off, and we were bringing in a ton of money for him. Since we were earning pennies in comparison to what the program was earning for Barstool, we sought to renegotiate. My companion and I walked inside to request further funds. What could the corporation do if we violated the contract? He understood that the only option was to please us and leave the show for another year.
Why did he not simply recast?
He was unable to. Every every performance had emoji characters on its record cover when I originally signed with Barstool; they were developing intellectual property that allowed them to constantly add new users to the chairs. However, I put a lot of effort into getting our faces on that piece of art. I was attempting to coerce them into thinking of us when you heard the phrase “Call Her Daddy.” I didn’t care about the money when he offered me the IP in exchange for a meager sum of money for another year. “This IP is a gold mine,” I said. If I stay a year, I will be a multimillionaire and will be well off for the rest of my life. My former co-host and partner made a decision, and I will never condemn her for it. She clearly realized that I didn’t want to continue working for Barstool for another year, and that’s business.
As part of your Unwell network, which now includes Gen Z TikTok stars who are now podcasters, such as Madeline Argy and Alix Earle, you are now producing and training other young content creators. Has anything about your time at Barstool affected the way you interact with the people you sign?
I want to provide a sliding scale for funding for all of the talent at our organization since I’m highly involved with Call Her Daddy—I was writing, editing, and producing at Barstool. I therefore say, “We can provide you everything or you can do it on your own,” when we sign these talents. I want to support them in becoming their best selves and never put pressure on them to do anything. It’s also enjoyable because, when you’re working alone, this is a lonely business; however, now that we have a community, everyone has become friends and is supporting and encouraging one another.
How do you spend your finances? Do you like making investments? Does it relate to lifestyle?
My money is saved, invested, and reinvested in my business. Because of my financial reserve, my buddies tease me about it. I’m the friend, though, who says, “None of my friends ever pay for dinner.” I like to give money on the spur of the moment, but wisely. But [Cooper’s spouse, producer Matt Kaplan] just gave me a birthday present as a surprise. When I stepped outside, I thought he was getting me jewelry, but instead he brought me a car. “Oh, you spend your money on me?” I ask. Fantastic! Nevertheless, I ordered a ton of new sweatpants and sweatshirts when I signed my Sirius contract. Comfort is something I adore.
Are you able to switch off mental comfort, for example? Is it possible for you to unwind and stop juggling all these different aspects of your business?
No, James (Giggles.) And all I was waiting for was the completion of your phrase. Matt will roll over in bed at three in the morning and ask, “What are you doing?” “I had an idea for my next episode,” I’ll say. To put it politely, this is my passion, and I consider myself extremely fortunate to be among those who have managed to make their love their career. To avoid getting a migraine, I will definitely take a few hours to close my eyes if I’m feeling exhausted. However, I never say, “I detest this.” Never once have I declared, “I want to quit.” Being in a supportive relationship is also pleasant. As a team, Matt and I find it really refreshing to have a partner who asks, “Oh, you’re editing? I got you. I’m heading over here to wrap up some calls.
Are you among those who only get five hours of sleep every night?
Yes. And because I feel that my mind goes to incredibly intriguing areas, I occasionally like to experiment with edibles—it’s legal here—and then I write down all of these thoughts. So, you sleep for a few hours, wake up, jot things down, sleep again, wake up, go through your phone, take notes, etc.
That sounds challenging.
It’s enjoyable. Perhaps that would be a nightmare for someone. I’m enjoying myself.
What is your ultimate objective? Saying that you’ve already accomplished something is perfectly acceptable.
to establish this business. We’ve accomplished so much in a year, from a tour that sold out seven cities to organizing micro-events that have united thousands of women and establishing Unwell as a brand that allows us to host parties without me having to travel. My goal is to become the world’s largest content creator.
Lastly, since you ask guests questions to create attention-grabbing headlines, what Alex Cooper quotation might I include in this headline to entice people to read your interview?
That’s nice, I see. Give it some thought. What makes a headline so amazing? For my shows, I always do this. “What will people click on?” I ask myself. I’m trying to think of something that I mentioned that would be a little juicy so you could make a headline out of it and screw me over.
Yes, I have an obsession with headlines. Earlier, you made a wise statement: “I’m a motherfucker when it comes to business.” It was noted by my brain. Perhaps that in addition to anything else.
That’s fantastic. “I’m a motherfucker when it comes to my business and I’m not stopping,” is one possible explanation. Is that enough of a click?
